The undone interview of Andrew McKenzie
to Jim Haynes (The Wire)

 

I had attempted to get in touch with you earlier about an ongoing book project for 23five, Incorporated; and while that previous invitation is still on the table, I've recently been assigned to get in touch with you about a possible interview / article to be run in The Wire. If you are interested, please get in touch with me at your earliest convenience, so that I can confirm this piece with my editors.

<...>

Along with writing for The Wire, I've been working with 23five, Incorporated -- a non-profit organization that exclusively works in the development of sound art. We've assembled several well-received festivals and events at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and released 4 cds to date; and I am currently working on the first book for 23five. This book, tentatively entitled 'Noise as Crucible,' will be a collection of essays and interviews from various artists working the nebulous realm of sound art, although the majority of the practitioners who are contributing hold ties to the noise culture and the dronescapism that emerged out of industrial culture: including John Duncan, CM Von Hausswolff, Masami Akita, Francisco Lopez, Zbigniew Karkowski, as well as installation based artists like Ed Osbourne and Christina Kubisch.

if you had done any research at all, you would know that I would never contribute to anything involving several of the 'people' you mention above, certainly now where more than one is involved.

and I'm not involved in 'sound art'. or any of those '-isms' that you list.

As far as an interview goes for The Wire, I don't know of anything odd about you or that article. I've only been writing for the magazine for two years now, and I live in San Francisco. So I am distinctly outside the realm of any quibbling politics that may go on at the organisation. Rob Young, the editor in chief, has given me the go ahead to do this piece, with hopes of running it in the March issue. I can try and figure out what happened with that previous article, and do my best to avoid any pitfalls.

if you write for the wire, as far as I'm concerned, you are representing them. therefore the internal disputes are also for you to deal with.

I prefer for interviews to be more of a dialogue than a set of standard questis that address boring facts. So, if you don't mind me proceeding with the interview, would you mind talking about your current medical conditions and how the treatments are progressing? I have to say that I've been listening to your records for over a decade now, and still find them unnerving and perplexing intellectual puzzles, often announcing that sound is another form of information which may have psychological implications. How has your current medical condition changed (if at all) your outlook on the creative process and how does 'the body' now operate within the field of sound / information?

I never agreed to your 'doing' the interview. you are being presumptious.

I have no doubt that my attitude is unfashionable, 'difficult' and 'unreasonable, 'rude' and 'uncalled for' in current parlance. but it's how I am, and I apologise if I offend. because it is not my intention.

however, I cannot live with the many assumptions contained in your message, and so must reject them.

Well, as far as any research I had done for the book, I am attempting to collect and present information about a particular history of art which hasn't received much if any documentation. I was unaware of any problems you have had with any of the qualitatively convenient categories which I have addressed; never the less, if you feel your work does not fit into catagories or with the 'people' I had mentioned, by all means, you shouldn't be involved in the book.

obviously I'm not making myself clear: it is not the categories. I was merely pointing out that what I do isn't those things. it is the 'people' that I have the 'problem' with. people have called what I do many things over the years, and some of the terms you have used have been used. but I'm going to continue to point out the error when I come across it. that's it.

but support a project that involves some of the people you mentioned? no. not ever. and what I was saying previously is that this is well known. many people try to brush it off as if I am being cranky, but my reasons are very definite and concrete, and based not on personal dislike or previous experience with these 'people', but other reasons that as I said before, can easily be considered 'unreasonable'. but that's due to the idea of a moral stance being currently unfashionable.

Yes, I was being presumptuous in my previous letter; but like your declaration of intent in not being rude, difficult, or unreasonable, I too meant no malice by my assumption. My intent was merely the expediency of communication. If you will allow me to back track, please let me offer again: would you like to participate in an interview that would later be worked into an article to be published by The Wire?

under what terms and conditions? for what purpose? why?

To the best of my knowledge, I do not believe that there will be any problems forthcoming between you and The Wire. I have asked Rob about any history, and he is unaware of any problems. He has made himself available if you choose to bring these issues up with him; otherwise, those problems are irrelevant to me and to how you choose to proceed.

I'm not talking to him. you approached me. I have done my best to explain to you how my positon is as clearly as possible. I am not going to 'raise issues' with people that hide behind other people that I don't know from Adam. I do enough work for people as it is. I have no need, nor the capacity in my present condition to get involved with another situation that attempts to denigrate me and what I do by acts of 'assimilation', and results in what can only be termed pollution. that I even have to point this out is evidence that things have slid very far indeed.

From what I understand, there are a number of recordings due out in the forthcoming months, including a trilogy of albums (two on Nextera, one on Die Stadt), a release on These Records, and a double cd on Fire, Inc. My hope would be talk with you about these recordings in relation to previous works you have created and to any intent that you bring to those recordings.

you misunderstand me fundamentally. I do not bring intent 'to' anywhere.

The result of this conversation <...>

a 'conversation' requires some sort of dialogue which in turn requires understanding. you and I just aren't on the same page, as evidenced by these exchanges. this is not a criticism. if you're a plumber and I'm an electrician, there is a very limited crossover of terminology and experience. I don't expect you to understand what I mean when I refer to any of it, even if we're both physically in the same building temporarily. all you see are the effects, and it does what you want it to. what is actually behind it and MY motives and reasons are not in your domain of comprehension, and neither is the training and experience that were involved in me getting to that point.

<...> may bring forth a critical analysis of your work that <..>

I don't see how 'critical analysis' is relevant to any of my publicly stated aims.

<...> may be enlightening to the readership of The Wire.

enlightening? in what way? how is this possible in the present situation?

I have no intention of denigrating your work or you in a public arena, as I have enjoyed your work for sometime now...

and this is an example of why this "conversation" cannot take place. you are trying to project your own thoughts onto mine. I never suggested you were going to do anything of the sort. if you read what I wrote *as I wrote it* you would see this. if you cannot get this, and many of the other 'clues' I have dropped over the last few mails, how can I even expect you to 'get' anything in the auditory domain that I have done, which is far more multi-levelled and complex? or the writings that often accompany them? or the packaging? or the images? or the graphics? which are all a unit that cannot be dissected? how are we to even start with a discussion of these?

I don't see it.

If there are any terms and conditions, all that I can ask is for honesty; and in return, I will do my best to deliver a well-written piece of critical analysis that is an honest exposition on your work. Is there anything that you need?

what I need is medical attention, which I'm not getting. by march I may be dead. if there were any way that such an 'interview' (and I have my doubts as to the level of efficacy of this medium as presented by a publication such as the Wire to actually do any 'good' whatsoever which this present exchange is doing nothing to alter - quite the contrary) could remedy this, I would do it. but it won't. all it would do is sell more magazines.

the day when such an opportunity could be properly utilised appears to have gone. cause for regret, I'd say.

lastly, you only state your conditions: I don't see any advantage or compelling reason for my participation. in fact, I sincerely believe that you will get much more of what you want by consulting the huge website at www.brainwashed.com/h3o. but then, that shows that the work has already been done. doing it again serves no purpose. I do not 'do' these things. this sort of repetition and waste of resources is anathema to me. there is no useful situation to be created by the rehashing of old 'facts' that can be accessed for nothing elsewhere. what I actually represent is a way of doing things that operates in a very different place: not one that devolves and re-affirms. this is there in what I have done for anyone to see.

I now see that this cannot work, and I respectfully withdraw my invitation.
Thank you very much for your time.

[December 2002]

.....time passes.....

Dear [elided],

Difficult to verify or check any of the above allegations, all of which we are aware of. It is impossible for us to communicate with McKenzie, he does not want to deal with press, including The Wire (we HAVE tried). There are all sorts of rumours and half truths in circulation around this man and we do not wish to gratuitously wash dirty linen in public, nor go into print with unconfirmed or libellous information.

Best regards

Rob Young
Editor

.....time passes.....

8 December 2003

A good hello to The Wire ~

Greetings. I have a query for you. The Wire is (deservedly) considered to be on the cutting edge of underground & 'alternative' music and culture. However news that one of experimental music's most prolific, influential and enduring geniuses is dying has not been reported in the least. Not even mentioned in passing. This isn't a story to be ignored! Not with both your reputation (as stated above) and the benefit to said sonic genius. The man in question is Andrew McKenzie of the Hafler Trio. Bafflingly The Wire has never paid much attention to H3O, for whatever reason. However the time is now to change that. Mr. McKenzie not only is respected, no revered, enough to warrant coverage but would benefit enormously. His situation is a dire one; terminally ill with both Hepatitis B and Auto-immune Hepatitis, he has been betrayed by Touch (which he helped found!) and is also without steady label support or even a job. That's right -- one of the brightest minds of our generation can't even find employment...incredible. For more information about his situation you can read about it here: http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/helph3o.html

This news isn't obscure or irrelevant. So why hasn't The Wire even so much as mentioned it in passing? As the clock ticks for Mr. McKenzie, the time is at hand for you to report this to all your readers who have admired and been inspired by this great man.

Sincerely
~[elided]

Dear Mr. Young ~

Thank you for your prompt reply! I can appreciate your feelings. I have to admit not being impartial; I am part of the Help H3O team and Andrew is a friend of mine. I can reassure you that he *does* wish to communicate with the press; if you've had problems contacting him I would be very happy to assist. I can facilitate contact, clear up rumors, and/or get the wheels of communication going if you'd like.

Thanks and best regards
~[elided]

he was contacted earlier this year by one of our writers, Jim Haynes, who was interested in interviewing him. Jim reported back to me that: "he mentioned that there was a previous interview [1] which never got published, and he also hinted at some 'serious problems' between the magazine and him."

I don't know the actual text of AM's reply, but I am not aware of any previous interview, nor of any serious problems between the magazine and him. and I haven't got unlimited time to deal with this bullshit.

Rob Young
Editor

[1] Andrew McKenzie comments: "the interview was commissioned by the then editor, Mark Sinker, in 1993 in Amsterdam and done by Phil England. It was refused publication because the only photograph I would supply the magazine with was this one. The incoming editor claims that h3o material is "unlistenable", and 'pulled' the article."
Someone else comments: "Phil England, the man who, 'wrote' the 'previous interview' is still a writer for and a staff member in the employ of The Wire magazine so the fact that the current editor doesn't even know what features he was commissioned to write says....what??!!
Rob Young had little, if anything to do with The Wire then, but obviously knows nothing of the history and appears uninterested in it. The editor then was Mark Sinker, the man who indeed changed the magazine from the jazz journal it was, into what it became. Tony Herrington was definately in the employ of the mag then though and he went on to become the following editor, and is now editor in chief and publisher. Tony Herrington, it has been reported via a 'reliable source', was the man alleged to have said that the hafler trio's 'music' was 'unlistenable', bearing in mind this was around the time they first started to feature Merzbow in their pages (er, obviously 'listenable'?).
Mark Sinker was heard to say, at the first LMC Festival, in front of a few witnesses, that he was bringing in the changes at The Wire in order to redress the imbalance of information about under-represented artists like The Hafler Trio (specifically mentioned by name) who were generally ignored by most sectors of the music media .. and where are we now...??))"

Some history:
* Biba Kopf devotes a paragraph to a meeting with Andrew McKenzie in Soho where McKenzie, "a very witty man, tickled Kopf with the physics of the matter." (Issue 30)
* Hopey Glass (A Mark Sinker pseudonym) considers the Hafler Trio's "Masturbatorium" her record of 1991. (Issue 94/95)
* David Toop, in a review of two Cabaret Voltaire CDs, finds the Hafler Trio "portentous and insubstantial in self-cancelling proportions." (Issue 99)
* Dave Morrison reviews "Four Ways Of Saying Five" (Issue 121)
* Jon Rogers Reviews "`Bang' – An Open Letter", "Walk Gently Through The Gates Of Joy" and "Seven Hours Sleep" (Issue 125)
* Phil England reviews "One Dozen Ecomomical Stories By Peter Greenaway" And "How To Reform Mankind" (Issue 133)
* Ben Borthwick reviews "Hljóðmynd" (Issue 200)
* Jerome Maunsell reviews "Whistling About Chickens" (Issue 230)
* Phil England reviews "How To Slice A Loaf Of Bread" and æ3o & h3æ (Issue Jan 2004)
* Phil England interviews Andrew McKenzie in 6-pages article about The Hafler Trio (Issue 243 May 2004)


"he also said: McKenzie brings out the worst in the worst people"