Already in the '50s and '60s there was a group of musicians (or better sound explorers) working under this name. But in 1984 Hafler Trio started again its existence, with three new members. Probably due to the fact that Chris Watson (ex-Cabaret Voltaire) was one of them The Hafler Trio received a lot of publicity. But also their 'scientific' approach gave reason for attention. On the first record, 'Bang - An Open Letter', there are a lot of references to Robol, an organisation for the research and the effects sounds have on people, and to a researcher called Robert Sprodgeon, with a lost of book he has written. Still a lot of people doubt the existence of Spridgeon. Other memebers were Dr. Edward Molenbeek (wh gave advices on techiques etc.) and Andrew M.McKenzie (spokesman, who was also responsible for the lectures he gave in The Netherlands). Because a lot has already been published (mainly through britain's music press and a lot of independent fanzines), we suppose that most of the above is not new to you.
A few fundamental changes have taken place lately. Edward Molenbeek died on august the 23rd 1987 at the age of 84 and Chris Watson seems to have disappeared. Andrew McKenzie lives in Amsterdam since april 1987. Since then Andrew has been doing some live performances (The Netherlands, France, Spain), and he was busy with presentation of the dreamachine and the Hafler Trio released only one record in 1988: Intoutof. Reason enough to ask Andrew about the present situation of The Hafler Trio and how this effects his work. This interview was done partly by mail partly by phone.

1. What can you tell us about the changes in The Hafler Trio, and whay the musical consequences are? Who are member now, what is their background?

The Hafler Trio is always changing, so I can't really say anything too precise about this. At the moment, The Hafler Trio consists of myself, but there is always a possibility that this may change in time. We are absolutely NOT concerned with music. I was, in my youth, and have always kept it a separate interest.

2. You once said that you know all the effects of every sound that you have put into the work of that. How are you doing this research at the moment since you no longer have any contact with Robol.

I test everything ut that I do on myself. With all my experiences and experience with machines that capture sound in one way or another, and machines that pump it back out again. Further have I not. ROBOL was never that important to me anyway, but I must add that it is not without the bounds of possibility that a spridgeon book, or rather a book about his life and work, may be published in the near or distant future. We were already developing our techniques in the main and biggest part long before we had any contact with Robol. A red herring.

3. A lot of people tell me that they doubt the existence of Spridgeon and Molenbeek. What's your comment?

Spridgeon died in 1963 so I never met him. I have met Edward Molenbeek only a couple of times, I have letters from him. What do people expect me to do? Publish the letters, make xeroxes of his passport? What is to be done ultimately to prove he did exist? It really makes me sick, that still a lot of people need these proves of their existence.

4. I think that The Hafler Trio has a very idealistic aim (restoring communication), does this mean that content goes above the form?

As to whether content takes precedence over form, I can only say that both are different. One is not more important than the other, but requires a different set of needs and requirements. The kind of value judgement implicit in your question is not really a part of what we do. We spread certain ideas (mainly to make people aware of the fact that they are influenced on a subconslous level by sound), but we are not that naive to think that it will change this situation, The kind of sounds on the records and tapes is not that important to me, as is the whole idea of making records etc. This is the commercial part of what we do, and it really doesn't interest me at all.

5. A lot of people see tht as a musical group. would it therefore be possible to see your sound infomiation as aesthetically beautiful. I think a lot of people will buy your material because of its aesthetic qualities. {paradox}

There is of course, no REAL paradox in that people find what we do "beautiful", but using that word invoke such an enormous amount of subjective phenomena, that it is impossible to make any kind of statement about it. If people want to see us as a 'music group' fine. Or anything else for that matter. The very act of releasing record, or doing any kind of work in the public arena involves the strong possibility, and virtual certainty, that it will be misinterpreted. The effect is to a certain extent though always within our control, created, as it ts, by objective means.

6. A lot of people see that the influence of sound are. What can you tell us about the reactions you get to your work.

I'm not really interested in reactions to anything, Any responces to what we do have always dealt with on the level that they arose or were directed upon. This is their particular business, is always an ongoing situation, and is the most positive aspect of what we do. It is not really to be described in a postal interview.
A lot of people contact me, and I'm always willing to listen and answer, even when I am supposed of doing something else, which may seem of much more importance. Answering questions are of equal importance with making a record sleeve.

7. Now that a lot of your ideas are well-known, would it be a logical step to make specially composed music (like music for study of healing)? Why (not)?

Your question about changing what we do as a reaction to something that happens in another sphere is rather baffling. What we do changes as a result of circumstances which affect us, not those that are artificially created by those that know better than to sleepwalk through life, building theories stolen and built upon others.

8. Listening to your records one can hear a lot of the same sounds? What us the meaning of this?

If a sound repeated from one record to another, I find this normal. Is it strange that for fifty years that Frank Sinatra has sung with the same voice, in the same language (and possibly in the same suit)?
The sounds that I use are like words to a storyteller. Or a hammer for a carpenter. A tool. As contexts changes in which they are placed, the meaning changes of these sounds.

9. But don't you want to use new sounds, to stay original?

The fact that you have to be original in order to be interesting, is what I called a 'western disease'. Very much unlike the situation in the east, where the story is much more important than the words (which are tools to tell the story).

10. Please tell us about your recent interest and involvment in the Dreamachine of Brion Gysin?

After the death of Brion Gysin Genesis P.Orridge inhertted the Dreamachine but because of lack of time, he gave all the rights to me. The Dreamachine project shall shorlty be released on KK Records (Belgium), consisting of a book, a records, a CD, and Dreamachine kit. It is the most easily available and effective method this time to directly apprehend the workings of the creative processes of the human brain. It is probably the ultimate creative tool, and it is scandalous that we have had to wait thirty years for it. The sound application has been completed by Genesis P.Orridge and myself, and is the first step in making further researches into the properties of the Alpha waves present in relaxed or connective creative states.

11. Other plans or releases?

Apart from the release of The Dreamachine, Ignotum Per Ignotius was released with a book on CD by Touch at the end of February 1989. A CD called Moods & Events is planned for KK, plus a 78 RPM record called Maar. The Hafler Trio Play The Hafler Trio is now being put together and the entire Hafler Trio catalogue is due to be released on CD in October of this year, 'Seven Hours Sleep', parts 6,5,4,3,2 & 1 making the completion of the cycle, each part with new instalment of the story and packaging by Ben of Zoviet France.
Further more Film Soundtracks and Installations over Europe, and possibly further afield. Soundwork for Psychic live TV shows. Sound work for Etant Donnes. And lots of other delights.

Still a lot of this are plans, mainly because Andrew is now releasing a monthly information cassette under the sign of a Spiral. Each month you can get a c90 full of interviews, rare pieces and strange music and sounds. For a subscription write to: